What about “That” Child? – Rachael Carman

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What face comes to mind when you hear “that child”? Do you smile or scowl when you see that face? Do you struggle to like that child? That child is a world changer. God has a plan for that child. All of that energy, all those questions, all that strength, all THAT, is God-given for His glory. Come learn strategies for learning to enjoy that child, to embrace that child, and to train that child for God’s purposes.

Automated Transcript (spelling and grammar errors are guaranteed!)

Yvette Hampton:           Hello everyone. Welcome back and welcome, Rachel Carmen, I am so excited that you are here with me today. I am too. It’s good to see you again. Yes, you too. I have so enjoyed getting to know you over the last few weeks. We did a, well, I mean I shouldn’t take you wait cause I actually met you a long time ago, but we did it podcast a few weeks ago on marriage and that one was one of our top podcasts that we’ve done. And so I’m so excited to have you back again now for this live event. It’s been a lively day. It’s been a really exciting day. We have had some amazing speakers already. We had Andrew Patois, Heidi st John, and then Kathy Barnett was just on. And so I kind of lined up. It has been a great lineup and I can’t think of anyone else and better to finish off these sessions than you.

Yvette Hampton:           So thank you so much for joining us. But you’re not, you’re not the last, you’ve got a lot still in store. Yeah. Well you’re not the last, uh, you’re the last solo session for today, but then after this we’ve got a round table session that you’re going to be a part of. So you and I are going to hang out for the next three hours. Right, right. Nothing else to do. That’s perfect. Nothing else to do. We’re just going to sit around here and um, enjoy time with one another. Um, I am so glad to have you on. I would love for you for those who may not be familiar with who Rachel, Carmen is to tell us a little bit about you and your family. 

Rachael Carman:Okay. So I am married to Davis Carmen. We just celebrated 33 years of marriage. We have seven children. We have five homeschool graduates. We’re about to have four college graduates and we are still home educating our youngest two sons who are 16 and 18. Well, I’m looking up because I still have to think about, remember trips to the pediatrician, then you’d, they would ask for the child’s birthday. I’m about to have it. And everybody else just knew off the top of their head. So yeah, seven kids, we started at critical, highly critical of how education did not want to do this. It was great for other people, just not for us. And then God put circumstances in our lives.

Rachael Carman:           He, the story of how he went before us, his glorious story for another day. Can you tell us the condensed version of it? So we were in Akron, Ohio at the time. We had our first son there and that neighborhood brought dinner over to us. And Davis took the dishes back to the woman across the street. And you know, w cause I couldn’t because I was nursing the infant and when he came in and I said, so are they nice? You know, cause we hadn’t met anybody. We were new to the neighborhood and everything. And he goes, yeah, um, they homeschool. And I was, I was like, what? I, the school’s across the street. He goes, yeah, they don’t, they don’t, they, they homeschool. So that was the first time we’d ever heard about it. Um, and that was God going before us. And then for three years, four of the women on the street that I got together with once a week, homeschooled.

Rachael Carman:           And so for three years I made fun of them. And then when we moved, we bought a house in the best school district in Charlotte. And God orchestrated circumstances wherein our son was put on no bus the first day and the wrong bus the second day. And we pulled him out 13 days later. So it was just God and the way he went before us and showed me people who did it, who were sane and who loved the Lord, that was only something that God could do. So that’s our story. So we didn’t want to do this. And now not only have we are we in our 24th year of home education, we own a homeschool curriculum company. Who knew we are the owners of apology educational ministries, which is Bible worldview and science curriculum. And actually today we launched math curriculum. So that’s who we are.

Rachael Carman:           So that’s Davis and Rachel Carmen. Yep. I love it. And I know Davis talks about how you, you’ve got your two boys on the front end, two boys on the back end and your three girls in the middle. So your boys kind of sandwich those girls of yours. It’s true. Yeah. That is so exciting. I love hearing the different stories about how people come into homeschooling because everyone has a different story about it. And it’s just neat to see how the Lord just gets a hold of everyone’s heart in different ways. And then we all kind of join this community of, of what ends up becoming like-minded families and we realize that we’re not alone in this and we’re all in this together. We, we get to go down this road of education and family discipleship together and we don’t have to do it alone. Right.

Rachael Carman:           And we desperately need each other. And I think you make such an excellent point there that, that it’s sort of a rabbit trail, but we need to keep sharing our stories of how God intervened and called us to this. Because when we share our story, I find that it resonates in different ways with different audience members. And it’s so important that we don’t stop telling our story thinking our story is normal. You’ve always wanted to homeschool. Or maybe your story is weird or strange or whatever. That’s just the enemy trying to get silenced. We need to be telling our stories and glorifies God. And that’s what our testimony is all about, is giving him glory. So share your story, tell your story, tell your story. The Bible says to, to the next generation.

Yvette Hampton:           So we got to keep doing that. Yeah, that’s right. And, and it’s an encouragement to know that we’re not alone and in the fear of homelessness and we’re not alone. I was talking with Heidi about this earlier. You know, so many moms, most moms that you and I know and you and I included, don’t feel like we’re well enough equipped to teach our kids. And to have them home and, and we’re, we’re responsible. It’s like all of that weight is on our shoulders feel like. But then once we get into it and we realize, you know what, it’s not the Lord is going to do it all for us. I mean, we have to be, you know, we’re his vessels where we’ve got to put forth work, but it’s not all on us. It’s not all our responsibility. If we trust the Lord, he’s going to equip us with everything that we need in order to accomplish what he’s called this to.

Rachael Carman:           Exactly. And that’s how you detonate that bomb. Right. [inaudible] I’m with, certainly in the early days when we would all go grocery shopping, so it was me and children riding shopping carts and someone would say, Oh, I could never do that. And I’m like me either, right? No, I can’t do this that I need you to. And really I think we need to be honest about that. We don’t need to act like we’re doing this, we’re doing this. We’re in over our head and we don’t even know it. Yes, you need to be the first one to say, I’m not right. God is doing this. This is, and I could tell stories for a really long time about all that God has done is has not been this blond. This is a work of God. And I have just gotten to sit on the front seat and watch him do amazing things. I’ve been, yeah, just amazed at what he’s done. But it hasn’t been because I figured it out.

Yvette Hampton:           Nope. Nope. It’s cause he’s a good God and he is faithful to do that. And so one of the things that causes us as parents to feel like we can’t do this right, because oftentimes we have that child. Yeah, it’s true. And so I want to talk about that today when we were choosing sessions, um, it, it was really fun. It was, it was almost seemed like a game that we were getting to play and like, who, who’s going to win this one? Um, you know, we got to go through all the different sessions that so many of you speakers have and just reading through all of them. And you had so many good ones. And this was the one that I really felt like, um, for today. Cause today’s focus really is setting a firm foundation for homeschooling. Understanding our why of homeschooling, understanding that again, God will provide everything that we need and, and do it and sometimes do it. Scared. Yeah. Tenured. Don’t pay to do it. Scared because I’ve been times we’ve been, well, most of the time we do anything worth doing is, is scary. So, you know, having a baby for the first time is scary. It was terrifying having a second baby. Oh yeah. Right. You know, it’s just, I think

Rachael Carman:           you need to do it scared with fear and trembling on your knees when you think you can just walk through and just, you don’t need to be on your knees anymore. Eh, that’s their scripture for that. So you need to do it on your knees. I can remember so many days I was just on my face just going, God, I have no idea how to get this done today. Yeah. I don’t know. And then he goes, he does it.

Yvette Hampton:           And so one of those scary things I know is for, um, the mom and most moms, if you have more than one child, you have that child and that child can mean a million different things fill in the that,

Rachael Carman:           that’s a great first question. What is that child? Well, on the one hand, I would say simply it’s the child that you most you most often conflict with, right? So it can be that they are innately strong-willed and defiant. Right? Um, it can be that your personalities are just so similar that you’re, you’re just, neither one of you is going to move. It may not be as much of a willful thing as it may just be that you’re both willful. Yeah. Um, it can, that’s really the target audience that I went through when I started talking on this subject. But I will say that I have heard from parents with children who have severe learning disabilities or physical disabilities or challenges or children who are adopted or have some sort of a psychological or an emotional issue that also fit into that category. So it’s, it can be as narrow as the strong willed child that seems determined to make everything hard.

Rachael Carman:           Um, and certainly I think almost all of us have that child, right? But it can also be as broad as your weakest link. And I don’t mean that in this, in this oppressively negative way. I just mean the one that takes the most of you, the most of your time, that you, uh, that you’re like planning around. And so like when you have an infant, the infant can kind of qualify as that child, right? Because that’s what that’s going to be. So I have been narrow and yet I’ve allowed the moms to fill in that blank. Cause I, I’ve found that a lot of what I say on the topic ministers to a broader spectrum of moms than I had originally intended. And I think that’s just the work of God, how he weaves us all together. But off the top of my head, it’s that strong willed, defiant kid that when you say black, they say white and that’s how you, that’s where you’re drawing the line at 7:30 AM you know, they’re not even out of their room yet and that’s, that’s the battle line drawn.

Rachael Carman:           So yeah. Yeah. Why in talking about homeschooling, why do you think it’s even important to talk about that child? Oh, how does that affect our whole world of having our kids at home with us? It’s a tiny space and it’s smaller. When you have one of them. I mean everything short shrinks, right? The walls come in and you just feel the burden that you talked about earlier. The responsibility, it weighs a thousand extra pounds when you have that child because you feel they’re, they are most likely to make you feel like you’re completely messing up. If you ever thought that you had anything figured out, if you have that child, you come to the point where you have nothing figured out. There are days you don’t know your own name. I mean, it’s just so hard and I think it’s, we want to be successful if we’re going to take this on, we want to honor God.

Rachael Carman:           I think that’s our highest calling as homeschool parents. And we want to raise a generation that honors God and word indeed. And so we’ve got these things that we’re trying to do, and that child can be a point of embarrassment and shame, and the enemy wants to make us feel like we’re the only one that has one and make us feel isolated and alone. I mean, homeschooling can make you feel isolated and alone anyway, right? You’re right. Everybody’s shorter than you. No one can buckle themselves in. No one makes a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You’re responsible for wiping everyone’s nose. It’s just there’s a lot. And then you’ve got the academics on top of that and then, but if you’ve got that child, sometimes you don’t feel like you can go out. Right. You feel like he doesn’t nobody at home. If I take him out, he’s not going to obey out.

Rachael Carman:           You know, he’s going to hit somebody. He’s going to yell and scream. He’s going to cause a scene. And so the, the world closes even further in. And I think one of the things, so I’ve gone across the country speaking on this topic and wherever I have the opportunity and I’ll say the honor and the privilege to talk on this topic because I am a that child advocate, I have not. Um, some of the moms have panicked and they don’t like the title because it sounds like I’m being judgmental and mean and thoughtless and cruel. And I am, uh, labeling that child. That is not my heart at all. Here in my heart. I want to advocate for that child and I want to advocate for that mom. And I want to assure that mom, that God has a plan having put that child in her home.

Rachael Carman:           So that is really my heart. And as I have spoken across the country on this topic, the room is almost always packed out. Right? Um, some others are coming in and they’re like, this is the reason I came to the conference. You know, I mean, they’re fast. All of this on the list of workshops, and this is why I drove eight hours, was to hear this. And I mean they just sort of sit there with their arms crossed. I mean, they’re just like, tell me something, tell me something. And then other mothers come in and they’re crying when they’re walking in. And I think that is most profoundly told in one story. So I spoke at this huge moms event a few years ago and the way they assigned your room was that the attendees signed up for the sessions. So they put you in a room based on how many people signed up to come to your session.

Rachael Carman:           Okay. This was the first time I talked on this issue. You have to know that I am never spoken at this conference before and so I’m expecting to be in some back closet, right? Because all the big name mom’s speakers are there. I’m a nobody, right? So I’m thinking if they put me in a room that seats five and we’re going to sit in a semicircle, that will just be glorious. Right. I walk in and they have got me in a stadium seated room that sat 500 and I’m like, Ooh, Ooh. And so waiting backstage with fear and trembling, right? I’m like going over everything in my head. I’m praying out loud, sweet Jesus. You know, come and meet each one of these moms, fill in the gaps, edit my presentation, do what only you can do. And, and there’s one, they’re coming in, right?

Rachael Carman:           They’re coming in and they’re filling up and I can watch backstage. And this one mom came in and she sat straight in the stadium seating. So she sat straight across from me dead center and there was not an empty seat. Wow. And from the moment, I still can’t tell the story from the moment I stepped out on stage, she started crying. I said, welcome. I’m so glad to see you and I want all of you to look around and I want, the first thing I want you to see is you’re not alone. You’re not alone. She sat there and sobbed and I start praying, right? So when you’re a speaker, you see the person who’s dozing, neither person, not on this forum, but the person who’s on their cell phone the whole time you see the person, you know, you see things that people think that you don’t notice them.

Rachael Carman:           And so the whole time she’s sobbing and she was on her phone a couple of times and I’m just thinking, sweet Jesus, just meet or did someone die? What? What is her burden? Why? You know, what is the deal? And she cried the whole time and I prayed for her the whole time. So at the end of my session they had somebody with me to get me out of the room for the next speaker to come in and they announced, you know, you can meet Rachel in the hall. And so we’re not, she’s not going to meet you here. You need to go out there. Well guess who’s the first person in line to talk to me? Her, that mom? Yeah. She could not speak [inaudible] she was

Yvette Hampton:           still shaking and sobbing and she said to me, I’m not the wow, I’m not the only one. And she said that was worth the drive to know that I’m not the only one. The enemy had me convinced that I was the only one. She said, I didn’t even think your workshop would make it. I didn’t even think it would make it because they had like a minimum, I don’t know what it was of how many people had to sign up for a session for it to make. And she’s like, I didn’t even think it would make it. And when I sat there and all of those other, my mothers came in, I thought the enemy is a liar. And that’s what these moms need to know. They need to know that you’re not alone. Number two, they need to know that God has a plan.

Yvette Hampton:           It’s not an accident. It’s not a cosmic payback. God’s not up there laughing at you going, you were one, here’s yours. It’s not an answer to your mother’s prayer. None of that. Right. All of the, all of that is just a lie. You’ve got to hold onto the fact that God knows what he’s up to. Yeah. And he has a plan for that kid. And he has a plan for you, mom. It’s both. And it’s not just them. It’s both. And it’s you too. And God has this incredible work that he wants to do in both of you. Yeah. Oh, that’s so powerful. You know, there’s, I think nothing as a homeschool mom, um, I know for myself that’s made me want to throw in the tele faster and homeschooling then a child who’s difficult to deal with. And, and I, I don’t know if you were like this, but before I had kids, I said this earlier today, Garrett and I were married for almost 11 years before we had our first child.

Yvette Hampton:           I was 31 when I became a mom for the first time for 11 years, I had a chance to observe all of these other kids and parents and, and I would think I was throwing tantrums and of course I was the best mom because I wasn’t a mom yet. And I would, my kids will never do that. I’m going to have more control over them. Of course. I’m going to be an excellent mom. I mean, I had, I had already read books on parenting and I had observed and I had gone to parenting conferences before we even had kids. Like, I knew this gig, I knew how this would work. And then God gave me kids and I was like, maybe I don’t actually know what I’m doing. And um, you know, there, it, it will derail you as a homeschool parent faster than anything else.

Yvette Hampton:           Um, and I, I would imagine, I might be wrong here, but I would imagine that with seven kids and the fact that you talk on this, that you may or may not have a child or two or four or that child you’ve dealt with this, it was our oldest child. So we talk about the miracle is that we had six more because he reared his head. We knew it when he was like nine months old and it was just like, Oh my goodness. I mean, and I thought, okay, good. How green this is. I mean,

Rachael Carman:           you want to talk about Naya today? Okay, this is what I thought. I thought when he’s throwing a fit at nine months old, instead of going, Ooh, your your going to be strong-willed. I thought that we were getting the terrible twos over early. Oh, I thought, Oh, we’ll just get this ever now at nine months and then we’ll just, you know, cause I’m like you, I, I get this parenting thing. I was such a great critic before I was, I knew exactly how I was going to do it. I was going to be on top of everything. Right. And yeah, never let them see you sweat all of that stuff. So it is, it derails you. It’s incredibly humbling. Yes. I think that’s my other message is I do think you’re dead on. It is a means by which the enemy picks off many a good mom.

Rachael Carman:           Yes. I’m just like dadgummit dig your heels in not to let this be the thing. Because I would suggest to you that one of the heartbreaking things to me is I will have moms come up to me and go, I will homeschool these other children. Yeah. And I’m like, yikes. Ouch. I mean, what are you saying? Right? This is my thing. Of all of your kids, the one that needs you to homeschool them to most is that kid. That’s right. They’re the ones that need you the most. You know why? Because you have the most invested with them and you’re the least likely person on the planet to give up on them. A teacher enough. Yeah. I mean really they’ve got your heart if you would dare give it to them. Yeah. And the other part of that is, and I say this a lot and this, this is a big deal to a lot of moms.

Rachael Carman:           Listen to me, we waste a lot of time talking about and commiserating together and you know, this is my whole big thing about social media on Facebook. You know, you’ll hear all these moms whining and complaining about that child, you know, and you just want to go stop. We’ve got to stop. We’ve got to be, we’ve got to rise above that because here’s what I want you to get a picture for. You think it’s hard to be the mother of that child. You need to get a picture of how hard it is to be them. Hmm. It’s hard to be them because what I’ve learned with my, you know, you’re right, I have more than one model, so, and I’ve got one currently still at home, so my oldest one is will be 30 this year and we both survived each other. It was great thing.

Rachael Carman:           Um, an amazing story of God’s grace, what God has done in his life. I had, you know, I’ve had three daughters, so I’ve, I’ve had female models, um, and, but I have one at home right now. And what I’ve learned about that child is there is so much going on and here so much going on here that they cannot communicate. They cannot, they can’t articulate their frustration, their anger, their, it’s all swirling, right? And we just want them to do what we want them to do and what they need us to dare to, not demand of them, but to dare to listen to them, to engage with them, to help them unpack all the swirl that’s going on in here. Your compliant child, you’re going to ask them to do something, they’re going to do it, and they’re going to make you look like a great parent, right?

Rachael Carman:           It’s the tough one that you’re going to have to dare to invest that time with and have that conversation again. Right? I mean, cause you had it yesterday, you had it earlier today, maybe, right? Maybe five minutes ago. Right? Exactly. And that’s, that’s the thing, right? We want them, I, I’ll speak for myself, although I think I could say we, I wanted him to make me look good. Any didn’t. Right. And that was when the problem was I was trying to make this whole homeschool gig all about me. Hmm. I didn’t think it was. But when you have that child, you learn about a lot of ugly things about yourself, right? And you want to put it off on them. But remember God is sovereign on the throne. It’s not just about them, right? It’s about us too. And we have to be willing to dare to think about what it’s like to be them and how can we meet them where they are.

Rachael Carman:           One of the glorious things, one of many glorious things about Jesus. Um, I’m a huge advocate of studying the life of Jesus. God came down and put on human flesh and walked the planet. And it’s so important for us to study his life. And I mean over and over and over be in the gospels, read what he did, what he said, how he responded, how he listened, how he acted, how uh, just it’s amazing. One of the things and reading the gospels over and over and over, you see this pattern of Jesus meeting people where they were. That’s awesome. He did not require all the time for everyone to come to him. Yes. There’s the sermon on the map, right in Matthew and there’s this sermon on the plane, right? And Luke. So there’s are a couple of examples and you’ve got a few times in the synagogue. I get it. By enlarge, Jesus went to where people were that he knew needed him. He didn’t require, and see that’s where we get hung up as mothers of that child. We want them to come where we are. We need to dare to go where they are. We need to meet them where they are in their frustration and their, their anx to their anxiety where they don’t understand. We don’t need to demand that they come to us.

Yvette Hampton:           And that means mom, that we downshift, right? We downshift our lesson plan, our expectations for the day. We reorder our time, our rhythm to meet them where they are. And that investment is never wasted. Can you be, be a little bit more specific on meeting them where they’re at? Because, um, you know, we, we have two children and one of them is very, very strong weld and I actually do understand her because she’s just like me and my mom’s probably watching this and I know my husband’s watching it and they would both agree. Yeah, she gets, and so I get it and I, and, and it’s been an, in some ways it makes it harder for me, um, because I, I understand her, I understand what’s going through her brain. And on the other hand, um, it makes it easy for me because I understand what’s going on in her brain.

Yvette Hampton:           And so one of the things that we’ve taught her, um, and, and it’s been so sweet, she’s been praying this more and more on her own, just during our, our, you know, family prayer time as I’ve told her, God has given you a strong will for a purpose. Yes. But you have to use that strong will in a way that honors him and not, and doesn’t dishonor him. And so she prays that on her own. She’s been praying, you know, God, please help me to use my strong will in a way that honors you. And it’s so sweet and you know, so sweet that, you know, during that, those few minutes of prayer, but then, you know, the other 12 hours of the day as we’re battling that strong, but God gives you those moments of hope to hold onto. Right. And she tries so hard. I mean, she tells us all the time, I’m not trying to just ope day and we’re like, I understand that, but let’s, let’s figure out how to get this. Yeah. You know, how, how do you, how do you meet them where they’re at? So, so explain that.

Rachael Carman:           Yeah, I love, I want to back up just a little bit. I love that whole prayer of her heart and that vision that you’ve given her because that’s one of the things we cannot fail to interject and we’re going to talk about that child is the ones that are definitively strong-willed. Good grief. We’ve won and complain about the culture and then we complained that God sent us a strong willed child. These are the kids that changed the world to get a vision for God’s plan for them. I mean this would be like Joshua’s mother rejecting him because he was strong willed or Daniel’s mother, you know, that I don’t want, he’s too strong willed. I mean, think of all of the men and women biblically that were strong-willed. Peter is my consummate example. We need a generation of strong-willed young men and women who are sold out for the cause for Christ and they’re going to dig their heels in and they’re not going to back down.

Rachael Carman:           This is the moment. So we’ve got, if we want them to rise to the occasion, we’ve got to rise to the occasion. And that’s what this is about. So kudos to you and I would ask the other moms and dads cast that vision. God has not accidentally given them a strong will just to try new. He’s given them this will so that you, the parent can be in cooperation with the God on the throne to mold that strong will into something that he can use for his kingdom and his glory. That’s right. Pray that over them. I used to go in at night, still go in at night with my current one and pray for the other ones at, you know, at a distance now and lay my hands and to say, sweet Jesus, do what only you can do. And his heart, mind and soul, he’s got the strength, right.

Rachael Carman:           Do a mighty work. So yeah, and pray that for them and with them and give them that vision as they come into their own, meeting them where they are. I think one of the foundational issues of that is T. I. M. E. it may actually dare to take the time and those moments of meltdown, whether they’re two or three or 17 and you actually have a conversation, you don’t insist on sticking with whatever arbitrary schedule or to do list you have for the day. You literally dare to take a deep breath and say, okay bud, let’s do this. Let’s have this conversation. Let’s talk about this. Let’s what’s going on? Because I promise you the meltdown is rarely about the issue at hand. I mean, really rarely, surely you know that. I mean it’s not about that. There’s something else spinning up here and I’m not kidding you. Their heads are full of ideas, dreams, hopes and visions.

Rachael Carman:           My one that I have now, he’s just about being driven crazy by himself. He has all of these hopes and ideas and drew and he’s driven to fulfill all of these different things that he wants to do. He I, he just has all of this and so helping him be right here. Okay. I get that right now we’re doing piano lessons. So your to focus all that energy and helping him, giving him the tools it takes to do that, helping him focus this moment and giving him those tools, having those conversations. Sometimes it means, and this was a huge thing with my older son, sometimes it means conversations at 1130 at night. Yeah. I remember when Charles would come in at the end of the day. Okay. So like we’re a homeschool family and he wanted to talk at 1130. I wanted to just say, dude, I had been here all day.

Rachael Carman:           What is so urgent that you’re knocking on my bedroom door at 1130? I get up before you, I’m exhausted having putting toothpicks on my eyes. Just list them. Right. But really daring to, to be there in that moment with them at daring to set something aside. Um, one of the stories that I, I’d like to tell is, uh, my current, uh, TC, that’s not tasty, that I current TC was having a meltdown one day, um, during a math lesson. And I mean, he was just frustrated that he couldn’t get it right. So I can contribute to that. Right? The mom, moms, we can contribute to their frustration or we can, you know, just say, you know what? Let’s do something else now if you’re strong will like I am and like you just confessed to being, it’s hard for us to step away from our scope and sequence.

Rachael Carman:           It’s hard for us to step away from what we’ve planned to do for the week. But sometimes the most kind thing you can do to your TC is say, you know what? I think we just need to do something else just now. Let’s go for a walk. Or why don’t you go outside and shoot some hoops or let’s go in the other room and let’s read your science or let’s read to kill a market. Whatever read aloud you’re doing, take a break, step away. Sometimes we’re just making it worse on them and that’s why what I mean when I said a minute ago, dare to consider what it’s like to be them. He was having a really hard time with his math, his time, and he was crying. He wasn’t really melting down. I apologize for the phone ringing. Okay. And he was really having a hard time.

Rachael Carman:           He wasn’t, he wasn’t, um, he was frustrated internally and he had just big old tears and he’s, at this point he was already taller than me just rolling down his cheeks. He just was not getting it. And something that I know, and I bet all of us really know, but we ignore this knowledge and that is when I kid get that anxious about something that they’re actually tears. Their brain is officially closed and they can’t take anything else in. I mean, we can insist on doing all 25 right of the practice problems for no reason. It’s, they’re not going to benefit from that. But if we can dare to say, to get the cues right. And again, he was not throwing a fit. He was just visibly just done. It just was done. Yeah. And I just, I took the book out of his lap.

Rachael Carman:           We were sitting on a sofa, took it out of his lap and I just closed it. And I said, you know what? Let’s go read David Copperfield. Let’s just go read a chapter of David Copperfield. We’ll come back to that. And he said, no, mom, I don’t want to give up. And I said, do you know what? This isn’t giving up. This is sitting aside, right? And we’re not gonna give up. We’re gonna fight through this. You can do this. It’s just not your moment. So I’m not giving up on you and you’re not allowed to give up on you. We’re just going to set this aside for a little bit and we come back. We can come back fresh, but we’re not going to do it now. Yeah. And so I think we can, we can create in them this idea that they can’t do anything, that they just need to throw up their hands if they get frustrated, that’s not it.

Rachael Carman:           We need to cast a vision, a high standard that God has given this amazing opportunity to them called home education, where we are totally invested with them and totally dedicated to them and Riva and resolve to raise them to the glory of God. And we are going to do this with excellence, but sometimes that means we set something aside and come back to it. And so we set it aside and we went in and read David Copperfield. It was this year I’m describing was like two years ago and it was just this amazing year just with these two teenage boys. The conversations we had around reading David Copperfield were just awesome. Um, but anyway, later that night after dinner, he came, I was cleaning the kitchen and he came into me with his math book and he goes, mom, I know it’s late. I really want to finish this lesson today.

Rachael Carman:           I really want to be diligent. And I, okay. So I went in and I sat down with him and I said, you teach me, you tell me what you know. So we started walking through it. And you’ve seen, no, I’m blonde. Math is not my thing. I’m hearing the mathematician really. This is, you know, kind of an out for me. I’m asking him to review the lesson so I can catch up. Right. Okay. So anyway, we’re going through it and I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My at one of my older sons was home from college and he was in the room behind me folding his laundry as I sat with his younger brother on the sofa and went over his math lesson and he did beautifully. He was able to mentally engage. He was cognitively present. He understood the concepts. He closed the book and said, thank you mom.

Rachael Carman:           And he walked into the other room to sit at his desk and do his math problems before he went to bed. And I got up to go into the laundry room not knowing that my older son was in there and he was crying and he said, mom, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. That site is completed and here’s the deal. You’re compliant. Kids are watching you too. Yeah. They want to know what defines you as a family is how you deal with your weakest link. If you just put them on the bus, everybody learns, Oh, that’s what you do. That’s what you do. If you’re hard, that’s what we do with you and you have the opportunity to say no luck if you’re hard. I just dig my heels in deeper. Right. I just resolve. I just recommit to doing this. Well and it speaks mountains to your other kids. I know often I get the question about, you know, what about the kids that are doing everything? Look, it’s a testimony to them. God put your family together and I think chances are my compliant children are going to have that kit. Yup, that’s right. They might not have been that kid but they had a sibling that was and I want to bless my grandkids and I get to bless my grandmother kids by digging heels in with my kids

Yvette Hampton:           here and I bless my compliant kids by loving their TC siblings. Yeah. They need each other. God put this family together and so that’s what it looks like to really meet them. Where they are. Give them the time. Don’t insist on doing everything. Insist on diligence and excellence, but know when you need to set it aside for a day or an hour or maybe a week but come back to it. Right. That high bar. Yeah. Let me ask you a question cause you were just talking about other, your other children and how they’re watching. I know I’ve, I’ve seen it in our home and I’ve seen it in other families as well that oftentimes when there’s that child they can often just kind of take over the family and the other kids can kind of be left in the dust. It’s true. How, how do you deal with that? And it’s, I mean you had seven kids and but I don’t think it matters if you’ve got two kids or if you’ve got seven kids or 15 right now. How do you, how do you balance out the time that you spend with your other children and the time you spend with the one who just requires so much of you emotionally and physically and cause you, you talked about, you know, they need time. I mean, that’s one of the things I need the most, but the other kids need time to. So help us,

Rachael Carman:           you know, this is, this is the question, the million dollar question that we all wish we had an answer to. You know, I wish that I could just hand out where all of the lines are. So you need to give all of your TCS six hours a day and you’re compliant children three hours a day. You know, I wish I could just, I wish it was as simple as a formula. It’s funny, I was talking to one of my sons today and we were talking about issues of discernment and talking to people, having hard conversations with people. And he said, mom, I mean, I can just admit, you know, I was thinking in the middle of this conversation with this person, you know, is this the moment to say this? Is this the thing I need to say? Where are they today? And I was like, Oh, welcome to parenting.

Rachael Carman:           I mean, you know, parenting is constantly this seeking of this Lord, this continual prayer where you’re trying to discern what do I need to do here? Do I call them into account? Do I, am I tough? Am I lenient? Am I gracious? Is this, you know, you’re constantly trying to figure this out. And that’s certainly how it is in a house full of children with one or two or three or 14 that children, I talked to one mom who said she had nine and I’m not going to question that, right? I mean, I, I get it. Um, so figuring out how do you not let them take over the house is an excellent question. And what I would say is the number one thing you do is you make sure that all of your kids know that it’s not about them. It’s all about God.

Rachael Carman:           I mean, the number one thing is what we are about is God’s glory. That’s the number one thing we’re about here. We’re not about any one person. We’re all about working together for God’s glory, honoring God in word or deed. Whether we’re doing math, we’re doing science, we’re reading, we’re doing our responsibilities, we’re serving one another, we’re going to church, we’re going to the grocery store. We all about glorifying God. So we have to do, make sure that we are, he is high and lifted up in our homes and he is clearly what our focus is on. So then when someone’s trying to steal the spotlight, right and make it all about them, I don’t hesitate to say, look, I love you, but this is really not all about you. I’m going to let you work on X right now so that I can go and read to your sibling or so and so or so and so or so and so, and we’ll come back to this.

Rachael Carman:           But right now there are other people that need my attention and you can do this. Yeah, you can sit here and do this or you can sit on the stairs, but you may not steal my time with your siblings today. But calmly communicating your love, your commitment to them and the relationship, your competence in their ability to do what you’ve asked them to do. And reminding them that it’s really not all about them. That you know, you’ll pray with them and you’re competent in them. And really I am a huge believer in doing what Moses did, what Joshua did. Um, and that is the whole thing. You’ve got a choice, make a good choice. I believe you can make a good choice. You can do what I’ve asked you to do and sit here quietly and do this or you can sit on the stairs, but I’m going to go and spend some time with your brothers and sisters or you know, family reading time was often something that got hijacked.

Rachael Carman:           And I’m here to tell you I want to talk about rock my socks. I was just like, come on, can we sit down and Swiss family Robinson without you doing some dramatic hijacking of the, I mean, you know, real, I mean you’ve had that moment or you’re going, what you’re doing, you’ve been looking forward to going on some field trip, right? And they just want, and you’re just like dag gum. It can you just operate. So in those instances, again, I am so sorry that you have chosen to try to hijack our reading time today. You may go and sit and I, you know, this is an aside, this is free. I don’t like to send kids to their room. I think their rooms should be a place of safety and security. So I don’t like to send them to their room. I’d like to send them to a place of neutrality for punishment.

Rachael Carman:           And so sending them like, um, like on the stairs at our house, I had the luxury of sitting on the stairs, but putting them somewhere and saying, um, you may sit here quietly by the rest of his read and so that they’re not, they’re not able to hijack it. Right. They’re not able to. Now there are occasions on which they actually do, um, which is tragic. You know, you’re planning on going to something. Uh, one memory I have Davis was planning on taking our two oldest sons to a soccer game. They both played soccer. I mean, they weren’t, um, I’m trying to think. 12 and 10, I think. And there was a professional soccer team that happened to Christian here in Charlotte and Dave Davis had bought tickets. Chick-Filet was going to be there with a cow. I mean this was a big night out for the guys that were going to go to dinner and I was going to stay home with the three girls I was pregnant with.

Rachael Carman:           Joseph are a number of six. So me and the girls were going to have a tea party at the house and Davis and the boys were going to go off and do this at a soccer game and it was just going to be awesome. And Charles chose to throw a fit and you know what? He couldn’t go. Hmm. And that was a bummer for Anderson, his younger brother who really was looking forward to going with own to the game. It was a bummer to Davis because he planned and planned and planned. It was the bummer to the sisters because we were going to have a party. I was bombed and Davis and Anderson had to still go, but now he’s home with me. I mean it was just, and that is part of it. I mean, you need, you need to set things where there are of all of your kids, the kids that need you to mean what you say is that kid.

Rachael Carman:           And I really believe it is because their love language is mean. What you say to do what you said you would do if I disobeyed you. And that means, and this will just take your breath away. That means they will disobey you on purpose to see if you really loved them. That’s hard to swallow, right? But that is true. They need those limits and they need you to love them enough to hold them. And you are not going to want to, I mean, you’re going to be so exhausted and so tired and you’re going to want your evening that you planned or your, whatever you wanted to do and you’re going to have to have the courage to hold up the boundary that you set. And so I remember that night like it was yesterday, Davis and Anderson drive out of the driveway and you know, he’s, I remember Charles says, you know, and I mean, and he goes, no, they can’t know what that mean.

Rachael Carman:           I’m like, yeah, but they are, you know, we said this and you chose this, you chose and you’re a free agent, you can choose, you chose orally and they are going to go. And I’m so sorry that you made this choice. And you know, it was the thing that me and the girls still had the tea party and he’s sat on the stairs. I mean these were choices that he made and yeah, we had, after I put the girls down, I mean they were still pretty young. I put them down and it was just, and we had this long conversation about choices and consequences and you know, he was strong enough to make a better choice. And I was really, really sorry that he made this choice. And, but I mean, I’m here to tell you he’s 29 and he would tell you that story too. That was a stake in the ground moment. Yeah. He remembers that. And, and my daughters

Yvette Hampton:           is so funny. They remember the tea party, they do not remember Charles Bean house really

Rachael Carman:           saying that. It’s always going to be that way. Sure. A lot of the level of the junk and the meltdowns and the difficulty that we deal with with the parents. Again, I’m not saying all of it, but a lot of it that God’s grace, your other children are often blinded to. Yeah. I mean that’s been our experience. And I’m not saying, I mean, I don’t know how they don’t remember it. I mean, that’s just a gift is it just seemed like it was just day in and day out and yeah. But one of them actually said to me that they felt like it got to a point where they were able to see it as so much love. And I mean, they’re an adult now. So this is the commentary. Right. And I think it was so clear that what you were doing was loving, and I couldn’t think of it negatively. Right. You weren’t yelling you, you were often, you were crying with him, you were hugging, you were praying with him, you were talking about what God had plans for him. It was just difficult to see that negative. So I really believe it is how we frame it. How are we God’s at work here? God has a plan here. Are we holding onto that, you know, white knuckle on it, baby? I mean, I’ve got a hold on that there’s something here. Right? Um, cause I think that goes a long way.

Yvette Hampton:           Yes. Well I think that’s such a good reminder too, because we, so often we just want to lash out at their disobedience and though they know we love them. Yeah. It’s hard sometimes in the heat of the moment to bring it back to Jesus because we just, we just want them to obey. Just please do what we’ve asked you to do. Right. I mean, you would pay them millions of dollars. There are moments that you’re just like, yes, got me over the barrel. What I would be willing to do to get you just to do what I’ve asked you. Yes. Right. Yes. So, so you’re talking about Charles is your oldest, you said, right. And him, he remembers that, that where he didn’t get to go to the game and get to go to the fun guys night out, what would he, if he could talk to a mom today who has him as a child, what would he say to that mom? You know? Um,

Rachael Carman:           so I have to back up and tell a story and I’ll tell it as fast as I can, how we arrived at this. So I was telling that child stories for years and years and years and um, I was not being gracious. Um, I was, um, I w frankly I was selling my son up the Creek for a laugh because when I would mention that child, I mean the mom, the, the connection was instant. And this was years before I was, this was ever like the topic. It was just a story. In another session I would, and I would throw in the phrase that, you know what I’m talking about? And the moms are like, Oh yeah, I know. And so, and they would all laugh. And so I was like, man, that’s, that’s working. So I kept telling stories. We were at a conference together as a family of nine.

Rachael Carman:           So in the early days when we first bought apology a, all the kids were still at home. And so when we went to speak at a conference, we all went together. So we were at this one conference that will go unnamed. And I did it again and I told, I sold him with the Creek for a laugh. And I told my that story and we were at the end of the conference and this woman came over and I saw her on her way over. So envision me, I’ve got my youngest son on my hip, right? And everybody else is circled up. We’re exhausted. I spoke eight times. Oh my word. All we want to do is eat right. We’re leaving on a plane to go home the next day. And so we’re all talking about where we’re going to go eat dinner. And the kids were like, Oh mom, you know? And so we were just in their conference. This woman walks over and she like broad sides us. Just imagine a car accident and you don’t know the is coming. It comes out of nowhere. She broadsided our safety of sir our little circle that we were securely in and lovingly in and looking forward to pizza. And she said, she pointed to Charles and she goes, that’s him. And I’ve got one too. Drives me crazy. She walked away.

Speaker 4:        Oh my

Rachael Carman:           kids are staring at me. I’m holding my youngest son. And Charles is standing beside me. He was shorter than me and big old tears formed in his eyes. And he looked at me and he sick. What did you say?

Speaker 4:        Yes.

Rachael Carman:           And these big old tears and I in that moment, I mean the Holy spirit was like, so Missy, you’ve been telling stories on him. He’s not old enough to give you permission and okay, you’ve connected with the moms, but you ought not do that conviction fail. I mean, I was just like, Oh my goodness. I had been, this has been wrong. I, this is not, and I looked at him and I said, I am so sorry, would you please forgive? And he didn’t even know at that point when I was forgiving before and, and I said, I’m so sorry. And all the other kids are like, what’s going on? And, and, but the conviction that fell upon me at that moment as a speaker, as a mom, I was just like, so I resolved that. I would tell no more Charles stories. I mean, all my audience knew Charles and that, Oh, he’s driving me crazy.

Rachael Carman:           I mean, it was bad. And so I resolved. I was not going to do that. He was a child. He deserved his childhood. He was not old enough to give me permission. It was not right for me to be telling stories on him, certainly using his name. So I did not tell any Charles stories for the next five, eight years. I’d have to go back and calculate. And yet everywhere I went, mothers were asking me going, Hey, you know, you used to talk about that kid. You’ve got to talk about that because I’ve got one. How’s it going? I need some help here. I need some hope. Mothers would come and say, somebody gave me a recording, great. And the stories would be on there, right? And so dad gum it. So this one year, I mean, I felt like at every conference I went to, people were asking me about TC and I was like, so Charles came home from college for Christmas and he’s sitting at the bar and I’ve got all this and [inaudible] my head and I said, I need to ask you something.

Rachael Carman:           And he goes, what is it mom? And I said, um, well first of all, we need to go back and I need to apologize again. Do you remember that conference? Do you remember that mom? Do you remember that? I told stories on you? And I said, I am just so sorry. And he said, mom. And he got up and he walked around. Now he’s taller than me, right? He stands over me and I said, I am so sorry. That was just so wrong. He goes, mom, the time for apologies is past. It’s you’re good. And I said, well, I need to talk to you about something because apparently I’ve been recorded a few times this last conference season. A lot of moms are coming to me and asking me about that child. They’re asking me about you, how you’re doing. They’re tired, Charles. They’re overwhelmed.

Rachael Carman:           They’re exhausted. They want to give up, they feel alone. And I just described all of this that I had heard and I said, I will not do this without your permission, but I want to know what you think about me developing something about that child. I mean, you’re, you’re an adult now. I mean, this is not just my story. This is our story. And without hesitation, he put his hands. You know how you know how, what you do when you really want your kid’s attention, you put your hands on their shoulders and try to get their attention. So that was the position that Charles had spent, like 90% of his childhood and right shoulders. Six one stood over me and put his hands on my shoulders and he goes, mom, go tell our story and tell those moms don’t give up.

Rachael Carman:           And I was like, that’s it. That’s it. And that’s what my heart, that’s why I want to tell the story. That’s why I go across the country. Tell like talking about that child. That’s why I do it on my Facebook lives, on my Facebook page is my message to these moms is don’t give up on these kids need you. And God did this on purpose and he will give you everything you need, everything you need, if you will, but let go and lean in. We’ve got to let go of us. Right? And we’ve got to lean in to him. That’s what it’s all about. And that’s what God needs us to do. And God has a plan that kid to change the world, I believe the world. Yeah. So we, we get to be this another one of the themes of scripture. Oh, we’re not from Genesis all the way to revelation.

Rachael Carman:           What does it, it’s one big invitation. God is inviting us to him. What he’s doing. Yes. Over and over. Come be a part of what I’m doing that the ademic mandate, the know AIC covenant then know the Abrahamic covenant. Right? The new covenant, all of it’s about common, be a part of what I’m doing, come and be a part of what I’m doing and find rest in being a part of what I’m doing. And so that’s the role that we get to do. We get to RSVP and say, Hey, you can count on me, God, I’m going to be a part of what you’re doing with [inaudible].

Yvette Hampton:           Oh, I love that. And don’t shove them on a bus because it’s hard, isn’t it? I love the reminder again that God will give us what we need and it doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. It’s going to go hard because anything worth doing is hard. Marriage is hard. It is. Nothing is hard. Homeschooling is hard. It is. It’s all hard. Yeah, but God will give us what we need. And you know what? We’re going to screw it up in the midst of it because we’re human and we’re going to mess things up. And then that’s when we get to, you know, get back up, stand back up on her feet and, and ask the Lord for wisdom beyond anything we could ever imagine. Cause he, he tells us in his word if we ask for wisdom, he will give it to us every time and just know how to deal with that kid.

Yvette Hampton:           Um, you know, if you have one or if you have five of them or nine, like the one, Oh goodness gracious. I can’t even imagine. Um, so what a blessing and I love that he gave you permission to be able to, to share that story about him because God is using that. He, you know, God is using the trials that you went through to be able to be a blessing to these moms. I’m watching these comments come in and, and you know, mom’s just crying and broken because they need that encouragement. They need to know that it’s okay. They’re not in this alone. God’s going to equip them and just to keep going. Just stay the course. And it’s hard. It’s really hard. I know I’m in the midst of it grounds.

Rachael Carman:           I’m here to tell you, our kids need us to say, this is what we’re doing, this, this junk about. It’s a year to year decision. I’m just going to say boldly today because somebody needs to say it. When we first started homeschooling, there were lots of voices saying what I’m about to say, but it seems like there’s not as many anymore, so I’m going to say it, drive a stake in the ground and say we’re doing this. Don’t make this decision. Year to year to year. You’re pulling in insecurity and your children, you need to say, we are doing this. Your kids don’t need to wonder if they’re good enough or they scored well enough or they behaved well enough or they paid attention well enough for to do it again.

Yvette Hampton:           Yeah. You need to say, this is what we’re doing and can give your kids some security and confidence as you’re going forward on this journey. They need that. You need that. Yes. You need to know that when you have a longer term vision for what you’re accomplishing and homeschooling, when you mess up, it’s one mess up and you get up and you go forward. But when you’re, when you’re trying to decide every day, you don’t do your marriage that way. Yeah. Right? You don’t get to the your next anniversary and go, Oh, you know, that’s such a great year. Maybe we don’t do this again. You make a decision to do this. And I really want to challenge these moms, trust God enough to lean into him and trust that he’s got something that he’s doing and he’s up to something and find some other women.

Yvette Hampton:           And I’m happy to be one of those. Um, you can go over to my Facebook page and I have office hours on Thursday afternoons and tons of TC moms come over and private message me and I pray for you. I add you to my prayer list. We need to get together and form a community and know that we’re all praying for each other. And you need to get a vision that you’re not alone in this. Yes, yes. Oh, I love your encouragement so much. You know, um, one of my favorite analogies I heard a speaker talk about this years ago was when, when our kids mess up, you know, if we think about it and in terms of when, when our kids are real little, when they’re, you know, a year old or you know, nine, 10 months old and they’re just learning how to walk. They take a few steps and then what do they do?

Yvette Hampton:           They fall down, you know, and they’ve got their cushy little tit, your little diaper and you know, and then what do we do? We don’t say to our kids, you know, you stupid idiot, can’t you learn how to walk? You know, we don’t do that to our babies. We pick them up, we take them by the hand, we stand them up and say, okay, let’s try this again. Come on, walk to mom, walk to mommy. And they take a few more steps and then they fall down again and again. We don’t yell and scream at them. We just say, okay, let’s try it again. And we cheer them on. That’s what we’re to be as moms. We’re to and dads, we’re to be those cheerleaders in their life. Who, when they mess up, because God is patient with us. How many times do we screw up?

Yvette Hampton:           You know, but as their parents, there should be no other one in their life who’s a better cheerleader than us who will come alongside them, take them by the hand again for the 10th time when they fall in today and say, come on, we can do this. Let’s get up. And then sometimes you have to walk alongside them and you know, okay, you’re going to put this foot in front of this foot and this foot in front of this butt and you teach them how to walk. And no one else is going to do that for our kids the way that we will no one else can because there are children God’s given them to us to, to Stuart and to raise up. So yeah, I love, love, love your encouragement. We have a few minutes and, and I see questions coming in. So let’s see if we can get to some of these questions. Okay. Um, hold on, let me scroll up just to get you the benefit of seeing how the questions that would have driven Manya not, Oh, my mind

Rachael Carman:           would’ve just gone crazy. I’m happy not to see all the fees.

Yvette Hampton:           Well, I, I’m, I’m trying to kind of read them and talk at the same time. Um, so when when, um, I don’t know if it’s a mom or dad, it just says Facebook user, but it says, what if you messed up with raising that child? My 15 year old has rejected Christ. Our two year old is clearly another TC. I feel more equipped this time around. Um, and I would say 15 years old. It’s not over. I refer there. I mean, it doesn’t matter if they’re 15 or 50, you know, it’s still not over. If they’re still breathing, there’s still hope for them. But how can you encourage that mom who feels like they’ve [inaudible]?

Rachael Carman:           I think one of the things that’s been so powerful in my own life is the lessons at, so I’m strong. Well, you know, you and I, same thing. I’m strong weld and I’m relatively confident in what I can do and tragically arrogant before I was a parent and how I was going to do this. So for me, one of the blessed, some of the blessings of being that kid mom after having been that kid are the lessons in humility that come along with it, that you actually get the opportunity to daddy yourself. Which by the way, is part of the journey if you are a follower of Christ, the whole point is that we die to ourself and live to Christ, that we are raised a new creature that’s not ourselves, right? So the humility that comes with that and has, it’s related to feeling like you failed.

Rachael Carman:           Maybe you’re getting a vision for that kid and you feel like it’s too late a it’s not right. We serve the great Redeemer who wastes nothing, right? The first step is humility. I’m taking it to the Lord first and just going, I am repenting, confessing where you’ve failed the Lord, where you missed his will, where in laying it out before the Lord and then literally going to that child and saying, look, I’ve blown it. I I see now I’m learning these things. Now I’m seeing this in you and I’m so grateful for what God has given you. This strong nature that God has given you and I have not been helping you be the person that God has planned for you to be, to use this strength for his glory. And I just want you to know that I’m really praying that we can work together, that we can learn together what God has planned for you for this strong will.

Rachael Carman:           Because I don’t believe that it’s his will, that you use it for anybody else’s glory, not yourselves or anybody yourself, yourselves or anybody else’s, but only for his. And I just want you to know that I’m committed to praying that God will grow you into the young woman or man that he has planned for you to be and you can count on to be here with you. Um, but being humble enough to own your part of it is the first step. Um, I think we, we have, we can’t miss that step. We have to go in and say, man, I am I really let you down. Yeah. And model that for them and really spend a lot of time in prayer. Um, I have a lot of moms who come and say, my son is 21. I blew it. And I’m like, uh, I appreciate you for owning it.

Rachael Carman:           I really do. It game’s not over yet. Yeah. So that’s continue to pray for him and let’s continue to see what God might do. And so I think it’s important for us not to give up on them or give up on God and it’s another opportunity to let go and lean in. And that sounds how mean, man, I wish letting go was easier. It sounds so easy. Um, and I’d want to hold onto it. All right. Yep. But again, it’s this invitation to go deeper and our humility and our trust of God. Yes. Yes. I love that. So really quickly, cause I, I know that this mom, it seems is feeling that way and I’m certain that there are others feeling this way. Speak to the mom who just feels guilty. Like she feels like she, it’s her fault. She’s messed it up somehow. Um, okay.

Rachael Carman:           How do you encourage that? Encourage away the guilt. Yeah. And that’s condemnation is from the enemy. Conviction is from the spirit. So when we’re feeling that condemnation, the weight of this, that it’s all wrong and it’s never going to be okay and nobody can fix it. That hopelessness, that despair, all of that that is from the enemy and he wants you to get stuck there right now. That is all I need. That’s the only battle cry I need to say. I am not staying where the enemy wants me. So that is why when sometimes when you can just realize what it is that kind of guilt is totally from the enemy. Now, conviction is from the Holy spirit and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to feel guilt and shame. In fact, we’re in a culture that wants to not feel guilt and shame and the point that we are embracing obviously sinful behaviors and not blushing.

Rachael Carman:           The book of Jeremiah talks about that we ought to, there are shameful things and there are things that guilt, feeling guilty over. That’s a reasonable response. But to stay in guilt and shame when freedom and Christ is available is not a good choice. So take that guilt as it says in the book of Hebrews to the throne of grace with confidence. Go to God, run to God, fall on your knees and say, I feel so guilty. I made fun of him. I was cruel to him. I was mean to him. I belittled him. I did just lay it out and say, God, I’m bringing you my guilt and my shame and my embarrassment. Only you can take this from me. I need you to work a work in my heart because the enemy wants to enslave me to all of this. I need you to renew my mind.

Rachael Carman:           I need you to give me hope. I need you to show me that this is not your will for me to stay here. Right? So guilt and shame can be part of the conviction process. But if you, if you get stuck in condemnation, that’s the work of the enemy. So take it all to God. And it might be, and this has been true for me, it’s not always Insta fix for me. I, you know, I say a lot. If I ever come across a magic wand or pixie dust, right, that works to fix these things, I will not hold out on you. I will share them with all of my, but there’s no such thing, right? And sometimes it takes us some time to work through those issues and so we don’t need to take it the first time, did the throne of grace with confidence and pour it all out for God and get up off our knees and go, well that was point.

Rachael Carman:           Let’s go. Still feel guilty. Cause it might take some time. You worked into the guilt, right? It’s going to take you some time to lay it down and to trance so you infuse yourself, right? You lay it out for God. You own it all. You lay it out. Spend some time in his word, spend some time in the Psalms, spend some time reading about the truth of God’s word. Just read through the Bible, read about the life of Christ. Go back and just get in his word. Listen to good music. I love the hymns. I love a Fernando or Tayga. I love my Christian radio music. We got to set our mind right. We cannot try. We cannot expect for transformation to take place if we’re marinating in the things of the world, if we’ve always got the television on or we’ve always gotten Netflix on or we’re always watching the news, my goodness, the political stuff right now could drive anybody nutty, right?

Rachael Carman:           We’ve got to make sure that in the process of taking the, the guilt and shame captive, we’re doing our part right. We’re putting in all the positive things and so we’re putting God’s word in. We’re praying and we’re meditating. We’re listening to truth in hymns or in praise music. So set your context, lay it out before God, but then set your context so the Holy spirit can actually do a work if you’re going to, yeah, if you’re going to really beat this, you gotta be part of the solution. You can’t expect it to just be instant. You’ve got to set your mind. Collagen’s three one Paul says, set your mind. In other words, did intentionally resolve to set your mind. Don’t let it wander because if it wanders, it’s going back to guilt. The Vietnamese wedding ring, right? So set your mind and constantly, several times a day you’re focusing, refocusing, refocusing. I love that. And I think so many times as parents, you know, we’re, we’re taught and told them we need to tell our kids how much Jesus loves them. And yes we do. I mean, that is one of the joys and blessings

Yvette Hampton:           of homeschooling is being able to day in and day out, remind our kids how much Jesus loves them. But Jesus loves you too, mom. You know, mom and dad as much as he loves the child and you are his precious daughter and his precious son as much as your children are. And I think sometimes we need to be reminded of that as adults. We are children, we are his children and he loves us so very much. And he disciplines us too. And it’s because he loves us because he loves us. So we’re almost at a time. I’m gonna. Um, let’s see. Okay, we’ve got, I’m going to try to get to both of these. We’ve got about three minutes. So let’s see. So this one says, um, all my three are those children, but my oldest needs the most attention. Now 17 has overwhelmed our homeschool for 11 years. Now with the other two being shoved aside, now that he’s graduating in June, how do I adjust with the other two? Making sure my next, now 13 isn’t doing the same, leaving my nine year old isolated. I feel like a juggler dropping all three balls on the floor daily.

Rachael Carman:           Yeah. And I can totally feel that too. The whole juggling thing. You know, I, I juggled really well with one item but not any more than one. And as a homeschool mom, you don’t have the luxury of having one item. Um, so I totally, I totally get that. And again, owning it is the number one thing to do is owning it, but also finding ways to carve out time with your individual children. I think it’s really a valuable exercise to spend time with your children and the ages that this mom particularly is describing going over strengths and weaknesses and resolving to work on strengths and you guarding the strengths and helping the weaknesses because that gives them a personal identity of where they are and that you’re on their team and you’re aware of them and they’re aware of them. And this is what we’re going to pray about and this is how we’re going to work together.

Rachael Carman:           But even though you may have more than one TC at your house, that doesn’t mean they’re the all the same. A TC shows itself in a lot of different ways. You can have the strong silent type, the manipulative type, the um, uh, the deceptive type. You can have the yell in your face type that defined the type, the, anytime you say one thing, they’re going to say the other one. So it can manifest itself in a variety of different ways. So I would also caution you when you’ve identified that you have more than one in your home, be careful you’re not just overlaying the oldest one on everybody else cause it might be a little different and give your kids the freedom to come out of TC. I had one specifically who was not a TC, went into a season of being one and came out his thing.

Rachael Carman:           Um, yay. But I was not expecting that when it, when it came, I thought, wow, I have, I just been not paying attention. And then when they came out of it I was like, Oh, Oh, okay. So no, that too. It could be that the other two maybe there may be some acting out there. Right? So they’ve seen how what you’re describing has having hijacked school for the last 11 years. Perhaps they’re only seeing that as the only way to get attention, right? So it is possible that the other two aren’t, right? So when your stuff, but dare to have conversation with all of them and dare to cast a vision for God’s purpose, for their strength and their strengths and their weaknesses, and dare to tell them that you’re on their team and you’re going to do better and pant for what you’ve done in the past.

Rachael Carman:           But like Paul says, right? I love what Paul says, forgetting what’s behind and straining ahead. So you know, let’s learn from my mistakes. Let’s admit them, let’s repent of them. Let’s confess them. Let’s forgive and then let’s go forward. And so learn from what you mess up on, right? I’ve had to apologize to Charles for tons of stuff, right? But your mistakes are only worthless if you don’t learn from them. So if you’re going to make a mistake, at least learn from it and go forward, right? So that that’s the best thing that you can do with these other two. Pray that God will get ahold of their hearts and with your 17 year old that God will place other people in their heart and their life that they’ll listen to. They often need people listen to the side view.

Yvette Hampton:           Yes they do. God, God is faithful to do that and to bring others into their lives. Um, okay, I’m going to ask one last one and then we’ve got to stop this. However, I will say were, um, as soon as this is over, um, in about 15 minutes we’re going to do a live round table discussion and Rachel, you’re going to be part of that. So if people have more questions, they can join us for the round table and ask them there as well. Um, so this one says, what is the best way to practically stay calm and keep calm and keep constant irritation at Bay with the TC?

Rachael Carman:           Yeah, that’s a great question. And really my first answer to that is a lot of death to yourself. You’re just going to have to, you’re really going to have to, and sometimes it’s pen and paper, writing down everything that’s driving you to distraction. And just, you know, I remember one time literally riding everything that was driving me to distraction and just having to tearfully I was trying to hold on to so many things like how towels are folded and a time to schedule like a schedule schedule. Like it’s seven 15 we’re doing this in an eight 33. We’re doing this. I mean, just insane and you know, and this the lesson plan book. And I remember sitting there and an older, wiser woman than me said, Rachel, why don’t you just write down everything that’s driving you crazy? And now I know that she’s sitting there go, honey, you need to get ahold of her.

Rachael Carman:           And she was kind enough not to do it. I know, I know. That’s totally what she was doing. And um, and I was like, okay. So I sat down and I started writing down and it was an embarrassingly long list and it was a stupid list. And when I first started writing it down, I was just so ticked and I mean, everything was wrong. Davis was doing this, these my husband and you know the kids were doing this and this was happening, this and I’m sitting there now just I’m mad and I’m crying. And then there came a point where I, I got tickled because it was just stupid dumb. Mary George has written several books and I did a book study on one of them one time and one of the things she said in one of her books with that, the mother is the thermostat of the home and you know, we can resent that.

Rachael Carman:           That’s one option. We can really manipulate that or we can really utilize that to the glory and the benefit, the glory of God and the benefit of everyone who comes through our house. Proverb says, the foolish woman and the wise woman builds up her house with a foolish woman, tears it down with her own hands. That’s right. You know, we can choose to hold onto all of it. And we have met that mom, right? I was at a conference a couple of years ago and this woman came up to me and she said, I don’t want to let go of it. I don’t want to home and I don’t want to let go of it. And I had just talked about, you know, chill out and let it go. Right. And I mean, she just walked up to me and just, and her two, um, two of her dear friends were with her and we just stood there and I really appreciated how raw and honest she was because I get it.

Rachael Carman:           You know? That’s true for a lot of us. We don’t want people, none of us really want a dad to ourselves. We really kind of ourselves as as simple and arrogant and prideful and hideous as it, it. We kinda like it. And the thought of dying to ourself and let him to let it go. We don’t want to do that. Right. It’s a glorious liberation to let go of stuff. And so you, you let go of things that for one, one really good example. So if you have a TC, I’m betting that they are not capable, not capable of sitting still while you do read alouds. Right. I really wanted my son to sit still. I wanted, what did I want criss cross Apple hot sauce with his hands folded in his lap. Come on two feet on the floor or criss cross applesauce. Right. That’s, I wanted him to sit still. Okay, look, I can insist on that and he’s not going to hear a word or I can let go of that and let him do something with his hands that he can actually take in what I’m saying and

Yvette Hampton:           actually love learning. Yes. That I get him and not insist on me. Yeah. So it starts by literally daring to consider. So mom, you’re saying you’re going, Nettie, would you dare to write down what those things are and dare to actually consider if they’re worth worth it? Yeah. It’s kinda like the monster in the closet when you’re a little kid and your nightmare and there’s a monster in the closet and if you just turn on the light and open the door, there’s nothing there. Right. Sometimes if we dare to actually write these things down, they’re rattling in our brain and they’re huge and they’re big and they matter, right? We run down and it’s like I am being so stupid and silly and selfish. Yeah. Yup. I’m gonna let it go. Well, speaking of letting it go, um, we are done with this session and, uh, like I said, you’re going to be back with us in just a few minutes, about 10 minutes. We’re going to join us for you did, I’m sorry, I run and have it banana like you did. Okay. Go grab a banana really quickly. I’m going to grab some water and we will see you guys back here in about 10 minutes. So, Rachel, thank you for your wisdom and your encouragement and for the tears that you continue to bring too many a mom so much. Thanks for having me. Yes. All right. We’ll see you back here in a few minutes. Okay.